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 4/7 LIS Pontiac Swinging Bridge Open C-tier
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daveksuxatdisc
Senior Member

1067 Posts

Posted - 03/08/2012 :  18:15:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
April 7
Check in/reg 8-915
2 rounds of 20
Pontiac, IL Chatauqua and Play Park
100 East Park St
All adv am divisions 35
Int 30
Pro divisions 45
Rec non sanctioned 25
Must have 3 for a division
8155751917
TD Dana Vicich

Part of the Ledgestone Insurance Series
register online- www.iregisteredonline.com
or send check payable to Dana Vicich to 1002 W. McKinley St. Ottawa, IL 61350

Vibram Disc Golf
Ledgestone Insurance
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MagnumTR
Average Member

621 Posts

Posted - 03/09/2012 :  07:28:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Can I ask why the rec division is non- sanctioned? I was seriously thinking about playing in the series, but unfortunately I am still a rec skill level so far. Seems like there is less incentive for rec players if not playing for points and not sanctioned. With the growth of disc golf recently, there are a lot of us rec players out there, so I would think we would want to accommodate them equally.

I know you guys are trying to run this series well, and respect your right to run it however you want, but I hope you might reconsider how to handle the rec division. Thanks for considering.

Tom

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zswitzer
New Member

69 Posts

Posted - 03/09/2012 :  10:03:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
im going to have to go with tom on this issue i think that every div. should be the same.

MAKE PUTTS....NOT EXCUSES
PDGA# 45602
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pdgapunk
Average Member

974 Posts

Posted - 03/09/2012 :  11:57:49  Show Profile  Send pdgapunk an AOL message  Reply with Quote
I understand you guys concern... it is frustrating. But I feel like I understand why tournaments are doing this... and I find it with good reason...

The reason I did this for my tournament, the Soy City Challenge, was because so many first timers were playing in a tournament. It is a great way to get first timers hooked on the sport. Lure them in. A lot of new players have no interest in signing up for the PDGA and that extra $10 dollars turns them off from signing up.

Personally, I think the PDGA system is screwy. There should be 4 divisions: Novice, Intermediate, Advanced, and Pro. Recreational should mean "for fun." Keep costs lower, sign up, get a players package, top few get a trophy/prize possibly.

To my knowledge, Pontiac has not had a tournament before... This style worked well for the first Decatur one, so it may work well for Pontiac to get a lot of newbies out.

-Noah
PDGA #36883
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Ledgestone
Junior Member

318 Posts

Posted - 03/10/2012 :  18:05:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Can I ask why the rec division is non- sanctioned? I was seriously thinking about playing in the series, but unfortunately I am still a rec skill level so far. Seems like there is less incentive for rec players if not playing for points and not sanctioned. With the growth of disc golf recently, there are a lot of us rec players out there, so I would think we would want to accommodate them equally.


Pretty much what Noah said is the reason why - we will have plenty of sanctioned divisions but we want to encourage newer players to play and get them involved with the PDGA.

The important thing to remember is this - Recreation players (and any non-sanctioned players) will still get Series points and there will be Series trophies and prizes.
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daveksuxatdisc
Senior Member

1067 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2012 :  11:50:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm just goin with what was decided for the series.



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MagnumTR
Average Member

621 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2012 :  07:36:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That answer really doesn't make much sense to me. PDGA has divisions for Advanced, Intermediate, Rec, and Novice. Intermediate consists of players with a rating of 900 - 950. Player with ratings under 900 qualify as Rec or Novice. Taking the BN Disc club as an example, I would bet well over half of our club members fit into the Rec and Novice skill levels.

I agree the PDGA Divisions might be poorly named (Rec does not mean "just for fun"), but that doesn't mean we should treat them like they are newbies or playing just for fun. If you want to have division for newbies where they don't have to pay the extra $10, you can still do that - call it the Newbies division, or Beginners, or whatever you want to call it. But still give the players rated 850-899 an opportunity to get some sanctioned and rated rounds under their belt.

So if that is the reason, I still wish you would reconsider.

If there are others out ther who read this and agree with me please chime in (even just briefly) to help me out. thanks,
.

Tom

Go Bears! Go Blackhawks! Go Bulls! Go Cubs! And Go White Sox! CHICAGO SPORTS ROCK!!!
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pdgapunk
Average Member

974 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2012 :  08:26:25  Show Profile  Send pdgapunk an AOL message  Reply with Quote
quote:
The reason I did this for my tournament, the Soy City Challenge, was because so many first timers were playing in a tournament. It is a great way to get first timers hooked on the sport. Lure them in. A lot of new players have no interest in signing up for the PDGA and that extra $10 dollars turns them off from signing up. To my knowledge, Pontiac has not had a tournament before... This style worked well for the first Decatur one, so it may work well for Pontiac to get a lot of newbies out.


Tom, my middle paragraph was my personal view, not fact. Some people may agree with me and some may not...

But, you can't say that the rest of my post does not make any sense. I had the numbers to back up this quote at the Soy City Challenge. The majority was new players/non pdga members that played in Rec/Nov. I would disagree more with it if it was an A or B tier but since it is a C tier and it is in a town that has never had a tournament before it is a good idea. Do I agree with every C tier being like this? Not really. If it was Morton or Peoria or even Bloomington I would make everything sanctioned. There are some TDs out there that are against having a sanctioned event for a first tournament in a small town, period. What it comes down to is numbers... TDs have a number in mind that they consider as a successful tournament. They want to meet that goal. If they believe there will be more players interested in playing if costs are low for the lower divisions, then some may choose to make the lower divisions non-sanctioned to lure the locals into playing because those are the divisions the majority would be interested in playing.

One suggestion I have is to play INT when something like this happens. Playing in a higher division almost always helps your game.

-Noah
PDGA #36883

Edited by - pdgapunk on 03/12/2012 08:28:12
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horseman2
Junior Member

366 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2012 :  19:49:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a few thoughts on this subject. First I think that if a tournament is sanctioned all divisions should also. I also agree that there needs to be a divisions for new, locals to get started. It really wouldn't be a big deal to add a division special for the new people. Under the same pretense of getting new people in and playing maybe all women's divisions should be unsanctioned and lower cost to get more women playing in tournaments. We all know there are not enough women in the game. If anything make the Novice an unsanctioned division, it is the lowest, starting division. By the PDGA standards there are far more members of the club that qualify for the Rec division (<900)than intermediate or advanced. By making a separate division or making the Novice unsanctioned would be more fair to a greater number in the Rec. division who would like to have their round rankings count. I don't know about the rest of you but I feel better now.
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pdgapunk
Average Member

974 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2012 :  12:09:45  Show Profile  Send pdgapunk an AOL message  Reply with Quote
I could live with your approach, Mark... It doesn't mean i like you though.

-Noah
PDGA #36883
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thespudster
Starting Member

6 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2012 :  12:39:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
adv masters for me rather than rec or novice

pdga # 10569
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CEValkyrie
Junior Member

175 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2012 :  15:14:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sorry for the thread drift.

Personally I have no stake in this. It's not a division that affects me. As the monthes dwindle on being PDGA State Coordinator it's a little less of a hit. I would always encourage all divisions to be run sanctioned.

Going back to 2001 when I first started playing there were very few PDGA events around. There was very little incentive to join the PDGA. Gary Lewis and Brian Cummings each ran a few events. Only the Pro/Adv divisions were sanctioned. Milwaukee ran a sanctioned event and that was about it within 2 hours. Being part of the IOS crew we decided to sanction all divisions. An area that had very few lower division PDGA members grew tremendously. Gary, Brian, and the other tournament directors started to sanction all divisions. The growth of tournament play exploded to what it is today.

I personally believe that if you are looking to build a tournament player base sanctioning all divisions is the way to go. IMO PDGA members tend to stay around the game and play more tournaments than non members.

There is still a way to accomplish both. I'm not saying to do this as it may break the sanctioning agreement with the PDGA (see below). Run all the PDGA divisions and add a "new player" division that is not reported on the TD report. That way they don't have to pay the $10 fee.

"Agree that all players competing in the event will enter an officially recognized and reported division. Due to tour insurance liability issues non-sanctioned or unofficial divisions will not be allowed." I'm not sure if the event does not purchase insurance or has it's own it is exempt from this. There is some grey area there.

I have no dog in this fight. Figured I'd throw out my .02.
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MagnumTR
Average Member

621 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2012 :  19:43:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sorry Noah, I didn't mean to criticize your explanation. I was just trying to point out that you can do both - have a division for beginners and still let Rec players play in a sanctioned division.

As far as playing in a higher division goes, my rating is under 850, so if I play in Rec, technically I am playing up already. Playing in an even higher division might help some people, but I don't think getting my butt kicked by someone rated a hundred points higher than me would work for me.

Tom

Go Bears! Go Blackhawks! Go Bulls! Go Cubs! And Go White Sox! CHICAGO SPORTS ROCK!!!
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pdgapunk
Average Member

974 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2012 :  20:28:34  Show Profile  Send pdgapunk an AOL message  Reply with Quote
I took advantage of the gray area when I ran my tournament... Since Decater P&R supplied insurance I did it that way.


No need to apologize, Tom! I like debating.

-Noah
PDGA #36883

Edited by - pdgapunk on 03/13/2012 20:29:45
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horseman2
Junior Member

366 Posts

Posted - 03/14/2012 :  06:16:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey Noah, I know you sometimes put on that tough guy don't like me attitude, I like you anyway.
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Ledgestone
Junior Member

318 Posts

Posted - 03/14/2012 :  07:21:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Honestly, if there's that much fuss about it I would make the Recreation division sanctioned and allow the Beginner Division to be unsanctioned. Because we have our own insurance (LEDGESTONE baby) we don't have to comply with the PDGA rule, per Noah's little blurb.
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